World of Warcraft: Cataclysm

[OrcishIncubus]

<snip>

TAAAAAAAAUUUUUURRRRREEEEEENNNNNN PPPPPPPAAAAALLLLAAAAAADDDDDIIIINNNNNS!

[Mastamune]

Hey Orcish,

Theres an old horde sayin...

If it ain't got tusks or horns, it ain't sh!t.

I just feel sorry for my Tauren Warrior....Because as soon as Race Changes drop, Hes going to become a Orc and my New paladin will get his hame.

I seriously do not like blood elves animations or voices.

I say this, because I realized that after 95 Levels of Blood Elf animations I wanted to blow chunks all over my comp (level 74 paladin/Level 21 Warlock). The Paladin is only used for...Jewelcrafting/prospecting and the Warlock got deleted...Shes a Undead Warlock now  .

[nikita]

Am I honestly the only person who thinks Tauren paladins would be stupid?  They don't even make sense as is.

[Keizuki]

They make more sense than BE paladins.

[nikita]

They make more sense than BE paladins.

Maybe a grain of sand or two more, but we're not exactly working with rock solid principles here to begin with I suppose; they didn't make much sense either.

[Mastamune]

Am I honestly the only person who thinks Tauren paladins would be stupid?  They don't even make sense as is.

The Tauren are an elder race, as old as the Night Elves, perhaps even older. The Tauren have always worshiped the Earth Mother. There are three parts to the Earthmother,  Her eyes and Body. The moon is one of the Earthmother's eyes. To the Night Elves the moon is Elune, To the Tauren, she is Mu'sha. The other is eye is An'she, the sun. Mu'sha chases An'she in an eternal dance, hence day to night, and night to day.

The Tauren believe their must be balance to everything, and Tahu Sagewind has said that they only worship the Moon and Earth because Hammul Runetotem learned everything he knows about druidism from the night elves and Centarius.

Tauren lore said that they were druids long before the night elves, but cannot prove it because they have a tradition of passing stories down instead of recording history like other races. In the beginning, Tauren worshipped all aspects of the Earthmother, The sun, the moon and the earth. Because of the long war agianst the Centaur and their nomadic ways, several aspects of worship were forgotten. The tauren always worshipped the earth because it was the earthmother, they recovered the worship of Mu'sha because of ties with the Night Elf Druids. 

Tahu Sagewind (if you do the quest to return the shield to the Tauren Female on Cowtown a.k.a. Thunderbluff) has brought up a point that the tauren have not been worshipping the sun. I can only assume that worship of the sun, which is the source that pushes the shadows away and brings warmth and blessings to the earth, would lead to the blessing of powers similar to the Holy  Light.

A paladin is only a warrior who uses his faith as a weapon. Too many people see paladins as people of high virtue or having a strong belief in the Human religion of the Light.  All a paladin is, is a Priest who has undergone martial training with weapons and armor, and harnessed their faith into a powerful weapon. This is quite similar to a druid, who due to their faith can harness the powers of nature and the moon into weapons for use agianst their enemies. Druids can change forms because they are blessed by animal spirits.

Night Elves, Trolls, Undead and Gnomes(after the expansion) cannot become paladins even though they can become priests for various reasons i don't feel like getting into.

Yes, I posted this on the forums under Steelhorn, and/or Klabe.

[OrcishIncubus]

Am I honestly the only person who thinks Tauren paladins would be stupid?  They don't even make sense as is.

The Tauren are an elder race, as old as the Night Elves, perhaps even older. The Tauren have always worshiped the Earth Mother. There are three parts to the Earthmother,  Her eyes and Body. The moon is one of the Earthmother's eyes. To the Night Elves the moon is Elune, To the Tauren, she is Mu'sha. The other is eye is An'she, the sun. Mu'sha chases An'she in an eternal dance, hence day to night, and night to day.

The Tauren believe their must be balance to everything, and Tahu Sagewind has said that they only worship the Moon and Earth because Hammul Runetotem learned everything he knows about druidism from the night elves and Centarius.

Tauren lore said that they were druids long before the night elves, but cannot prove it because they have a tradition of passing stories down instead of recording history like other races. In the beginning, Tauren worshipped all aspects of the Earthmother, The sun, the moon and the earth. Because of the long war agianst the Centaur and their nomadic ways, several aspects of worship were forgotten. The tauren always worshipped the earth because it was the earthmother, they recovered the worship of Mu'sha because of ties with the Night Elf Druids. 

Tahu Sagewind (if you do the quest to return the shield to the Tauren Female on Cowtown a.k.a. Thunderbluff) has brought up a point that the tauren have not been worshipping the sun. I can only assume that worship of the sun, which is the source that pushes the shadows away and brings warmth and blessings to the earth, would lead to the blessing of powers similar to the Holy  Light.

A paladin is only a warrior who uses his faith as a weapon. Too many people see paladins as people of high virtue or having a strong belief in the Human religion of the Light.  All a paladin is, is a Priest who has undergone martial training with weapons and armor, and harnessed their faith into a powerful weapon. This is quite similar to a druid, who due to their faith can harness the powers of nature and the moon into weapons for use agianst their enemies. Druids can change forms because they are blessed by animal spirits.

Night Elves, Trolls, Undead and Gnomes(after the expansion) cannot become paladins even though they can become priests for various reasons i don't feel like getting into.

Yes, I posted this on the forums under Steelhorn, and/or Klabe.

Night elves are older than tauren because night elves were the first race, hence the Sundering happening because of the high elves, however they were mostly known as the kaldorei at that time, and were basically what the blood elves are now.  Malfurion Stormrage is the first druid, you contradicted yourself saying "tauren learned druidism from Cenarius and the night elves" but then said that tauren lore said they were druids long before night elves, if night elves are an older race than tauren, and Malfurion was the first druid, then how did tauren learn druidism before the night elves did, and how would tauren learn druidism from the night elves if they already knew it?  Not to mention Malfurion learned druidism from Cenarius himself... the source. 
Source: story of the Well of Eternity

Also, paladins DO worship the Holy Light, how do you think blood elves became paladins? They had to steal a naaru!  You obscured what Blizzard defined the paladin in Warcraft II and WoW vanilla.

Guardians of the Holy Light, paladins bolster their allies with holy auras and blessing to protect their friends from harm and enhance their powers. Wearing heavy armor, they can withstand terrible blows in the thickest battles while healing their wounded allies and resurrecting the slain. In combat, they can wield massive two-handed weapons, stun their foes, destroy undead and demons, and judge their enemies with holy vengeance. Paladins are a defensive class designed to outlast their opponents.

  Source: quoted from WoW site's info on the paladin class

I can understand tauren being a paladin in a very base sense... but it still leaves a lot of holes that Blizzard will have to bullshit up to make the lore right...

Making a stab into the darkness (in other words, these are just random guesses, but I can't prove any of it and I'm not an expert, so don't expect me to argue or elaborate too much on the thought processes):

In a base understanding, tauren understand there's something omnipotent and omnisicent (which they believe as the Earthmother) and overall tauren are a good-natured raced with respect for the earth. 

They believe in honor like the orcs do.  A true paladin is also honorable... Tirion Fordring is an epitome of that, being denounced as a paladin and noble to honor his word to a hermit orc and saving that orc from execution (Eitrigg).

The groundwork is there, but the lore we currently have available lacks to make the proper links to prove a tauren paladin being real.

or hell, we could just say that the blood elves decided to share their knowledge in exchange for more steak...

[nikita]

Night elves are older than tauren because night elves were the first race, hence the Sundering happening because of the high elves, however they were mostly known as the kaldorei at that time, and were basically what the blood elves are now.  Malfurion Stormrage is the first druid, you contradicted yourself saying "tauren learned druidism from Cenarius and the night elves" but then said that tauren lore said they were druids long before night elves, if night elves are an older race than tauren, and Malfurion was the first druid, then how did tauren learn druidism before the night elves did, and how would tauren learn druidism from the night elves if they already knew it?  Not to mention Malfurion learned druidism from Cenarius himself... the source. 
Source: story of the Well of Eternity

Also, paladins DO worship the Holy Light, how do you think blood elves became paladins? They had to steal a naaru!  You obscured what Blizzard defined the paladin in Warcraft II and WoW vanilla.

Guardians of the Holy Light, paladins bolster their allies with holy auras and blessing to protect their friends from harm and enhance their powers. Wearing heavy armor, they can withstand terrible blows in the thickest battles while healing their wounded allies and resurrecting the slain. In combat, they can wield massive two-handed weapons, stun their foes, destroy undead and demons, and judge their enemies with holy vengeance. Paladins are a defensive class designed to outlast their opponents.

  Source: quoted from WoW site's info on the paladin class

I can understand tauren being a paladin in a very base sense... but it still leaves a lot of holes that Blizzard will have to bullshit up to make the lore right...

Making a stab into the darkness (in other words, these are just random guesses, but I can't prove any of it and I'm not an expert, so don't expect me to argue or elaborate too much on the thought processes):

In a base understanding, tauren understand there's something omnipotent and omnisicent (which they believe as the Earthmother) and overall tauren are a good-natured raced with respect for the earth. 

They believe in honor like the orcs do.  A true paladin is also honorable... Tirion Fordring is an epitome of that, being denounced as a paladin and noble to honor his word to a hermit orc and saving that orc from execution (Eitrigg).

The groundwork is there, but the lore we currently have available lacks to make the proper links to prove a tauren paladin being real.

or hell, we could just say that the blood elves decided to share their knowledge in exchange for more steak...

Paladins worship the Holy Light in this universe.  That's the reason Undead (which seems to be the favorite candidate for horde Paladins) CAN'T become them; the Light has (pardon the pun) forsaken them, hence they can't channel it and become paladins (or technically holy priests) ever.  That's why, at least in the lore, the Forsaken worship the Forgotten Shadow.

Trolls can't because the Light is something inherently not believed in in their culture. The whole "Cannibalism" thing also probably gets in the way of the Light blessing them with its powers.  However, there IS an example of a Troll being blessed with the Light's power (Ashbringer comic), but that's because he spent time squatting in the Scarlet Monastery.

Blood elves had to steal it.  'Nuff said.

Orcs can't channel the light for similiar reasons, in addition to which, everything they did while under the effects of the Burning Legion's command permanently effected their physiology (hence why they have GREEN FREAKIN' SKIN), however, as Orc also mentioned, they are an extremely honorable race, as are the tauren.  Paladins, being extremely honorable, would make the most sense for both of these races OUT OF THE HORDE AS A WHOLE.  That doesn't, however, mean that they would make sense in the overall grand scheme of things.

Goblins (their upcoming newbies) can't channel the Light probably because they don't lead very honorable lives, considering what most of them do in the name of monetary gain.

Sure, the groundwork is present for them to make this happen, but they would have to bullshit over a LOT of holes in order to make this something besides "Hard to swallow."  I mean, Night Elf mages are bad enough, same goes for DWARVEN SHAMAN.  That possibly makes even LESS sense than Tauren Paladins would, except that the dwarves are basically elemental themselves (at least, if you don't consider the Curse of Flesh )

That's just my one little beef (Sorry again) with Cata thus far; I like what they're doing mechanic wise and to the world, but this lore so far is so screwy they're going to have to fix something to make it more palatable.

[OrcishIncubus]

Night elves are older than tauren because night elves were the first race, hence the Sundering happening because of the high elves, however they were mostly known as the kaldorei at that time, and were basically what the blood elves are now.  Malfurion Stormrage is the first druid, you contradicted yourself saying "tauren learned druidism from Cenarius and the night elves" but then said that tauren lore said they were druids long before night elves, if night elves are an older race than tauren, and Malfurion was the first druid, then how did tauren learn druidism before the night elves did, and how would tauren learn druidism from the night elves if they already knew it?  Not to mention Malfurion learned druidism from Cenarius himself... the source. 
Source: story of the Well of Eternity

Also, paladins DO worship the Holy Light, how do you think blood elves became paladins? They had to steal a naaru!  You obscured what Blizzard defined the paladin in Warcraft II and WoW vanilla.

Guardians of the Holy Light, paladins bolster their allies with holy auras and blessing to protect their friends from harm and enhance their powers. Wearing heavy armor, they can withstand terrible blows in the thickest battles while healing their wounded allies and resurrecting the slain. In combat, they can wield massive two-handed weapons, stun their foes, destroy undead and demons, and judge their enemies with holy vengeance. Paladins are a defensive class designed to outlast their opponents.

  Source: quoted from WoW site's info on the paladin class

I can understand tauren being a paladin in a very base sense... but it still leaves a lot of holes that Blizzard will have to bullshit up to make the lore right...

Making a stab into the darkness (in other words, these are just random guesses, but I can't prove any of it and I'm not an expert, so don't expect me to argue or elaborate too much on the thought processes):

In a base understanding, tauren understand there's something omnipotent and omnisicent (which they believe as the Earthmother) and overall tauren are a good-natured raced with respect for the earth. 

They believe in honor like the orcs do.  A true paladin is also honorable... Tirion Fordring is an epitome of that, being denounced as a paladin and noble to honor his word to a hermit orc and saving that orc from execution (Eitrigg).

The groundwork is there, but the lore we currently have available lacks to make the proper links to prove a tauren paladin being real.

or hell, we could just say that the blood elves decided to share their knowledge in exchange for more steak...

Paladins worship the Holy Light in this universe.  That's the reason Undead (which seems to be the favorite candidate for horde Paladins) CAN'T become them; the Light has (pardon the pun) forsaken them, hence they can't channel it and become paladins (or technically holy priests) ever.  That's why, at least in the lore, the Forsaken worship the Forgotten Shadow.

Trolls can't because the Light is something inherently not believed in in their culture. The whole "Cannibalism" thing also probably gets in the way of the Light blessing them with its powers.  However, there IS an example of a Troll being blessed with the Light's power (Ashbringer comic), but that's because he spent time squatting in the Scarlet Monastery.

Blood elves had to steal it.  'Nuff said.

Orcs can't channel the light for similiar reasons, in addition to which, everything they did while under the effects of the Burning Legion's command permanently effected their physiology (hence why they have GREEN FREAKIN' SKIN), however, as Orc also mentioned, they are an extremely honorable race, as are the tauren.  Paladins, being extremely honorable, would make the most sense for both of these races OUT OF THE HORDE AS A WHOLE.  That doesn't, however, mean that they would make sense in the overall grand scheme of things.

Goblins (their upcoming newbies) can't channel the Light probably because they don't lead very honorable lives, considering what most of them do in the name of monetary gain.

Sure, the groundwork is present for them to make this happen, but they would have to bullshit over a LOT of holes in order to make this something besides "Hard to swallow."  I mean, Night Elf mages are bad enough, same goes for DWARVEN SHAMAN.  That possibly makes even LESS sense than Tauren Paladins would, except that the dwarves are basically elemental themselves (at least, if you don't consider the Curse of Flesh )

That's just my one little beef (Sorry again) with Cata thus far; I like what they're doing mechanic wise and to the world, but this lore so far is so screwy they're going to have to fix something to make it more palatable.

Well, night elf mage is plausible... night elves look down upon arcane magic, in the same way orcs look down upon demonic magic, yet orc warlock is a playable combination.  Not to mention there's Illidan, who lays the groundwork for a night elf mage to exist.

Dwarf shaman however... that could go both ways, there's the obvious factor that they like to deface the earth but also the fact they came from the earth and their defacing isn't always for selfish reasons.  One of their main reasons was to find out more about their ancestry, which they did find out they descend from the Earthen.  However, their decision to pursue resources is no less condemnable than any other race pursuing resources.

HOWEVER, night elf shaman and dwarf mage would make a lot more sense.

[Mastamune]

Am I honestly the only person who thinks Tauren paladins would be stupid?  They don't even make sense as is.

The Tauren are an elder race, as old as the Night Elves, perhaps even older. The Tauren have always worshiped the Earth Mother. There are three parts to the Earthmother,  Her eyes and Body. The moon is one of the Earthmother's eyes. To the Night Elves the moon is Elune, To the Tauren, she is Mu'sha. The other is eye is An'she, the sun. Mu'sha chases An'she in an eternal dance, hence day to night, and night to day.

The Tauren believe their must be balance to everything, and Tahu Sagewind has said that they only worship the Moon and Earth because Hammul Runetotem learned everything he knows about druidism from the night elves and Centarius.

Tauren lore said that they were druids long before the night elves, but cannot prove it because they have a tradition of passing stories down instead of recording history like other races. In the beginning, Tauren worshipped all aspects of the Earthmother, The sun, the moon and the earth. Because of the long war agianst the Centaur and their nomadic ways, several aspects of worship were forgotten. The tauren always worshipped the earth because it was the earthmother, they recovered the worship of Mu'sha because of ties with the Night Elf Druids. 

Tahu Sagewind (if you do the quest to return the shield to the Tauren Female on Cowtown a.k.a. Thunderbluff) has brought up a point that the tauren have not been worshipping the sun. I can only assume that worship of the sun, which is the source that pushes the shadows away and brings warmth and blessings to the earth, would lead to the blessing of powers similar to the Holy  Light.

A paladin is only a warrior who uses his faith as a weapon. Too many people see paladins as people of high virtue or having a strong belief in the Human religion of the Light.  All a paladin is, is a Priest who has undergone martial training with weapons and armor, and harnessed their faith into a powerful weapon. This is quite similar to a druid, who due to their faith can harness the powers of nature and the moon into weapons for use agianst their enemies. Druids can change forms because they are blessed by animal spirits.

Night Elves, Trolls, Undead and Gnomes(after the expansion) cannot become paladins even though they can become priests for various reasons i don't feel like getting into.

Yes, I posted this on the forums under Steelhorn, and/or Klabe.

Night elves are older than tauren because night elves were the first race, hence the Sundering happening because of the high elves, however they were mostly known as the kaldorei at that time, and were basically what the blood elves are now.  Malfurion Stormrage is the first druid, you contradicted yourself saying "tauren learned druidism from Cenarius and the night elves" but then said that tauren lore said they were druids long before night elves, if night elves are an older race than tauren, and Malfurion was the first druid, then how did tauren learn druidism before the night elves did, and how would tauren learn druidism from the night elves if they already knew it?  Not to mention Malfurion learned druidism from Cenarius himself... the source. 
Source: story of the Well of Eternity

Also, paladins DO worship the Holy Light, how do you think blood elves became paladins? They had to steal a naaru!  You obscured what Blizzard defined the paladin in Warcraft II and WoW vanilla.

Guardians of the Holy Light, paladins bolster their allies with holy auras and blessing to protect their friends from harm and enhance their powers. Wearing heavy armor, they can withstand terrible blows in the thickest battles while healing their wounded allies and resurrecting the slain. In combat, they can wield massive two-handed weapons, stun their foes, destroy undead and demons, and judge their enemies with holy vengeance. Paladins are a defensive class designed to outlast their opponents.

  Source: quoted from WoW site's info on the paladin class

I can understand tauren being a paladin in a very base sense... but it still leaves a lot of holes that Blizzard will have to bullshit up to make the lore right...

Making a stab into the darkness (in other words, these are just random guesses, but I can't prove any of it and I'm not an expert, so don't expect me to argue or elaborate too much on the thought processes):

In a base understanding, tauren understand there's something omnipotent and omnisicent (which they believe as the Earthmother) and overall tauren are a good-natured raced with respect for the earth. 

They believe in honor like the orcs do.  A true paladin is also honorable... Tirion Fordring is an epitome of that, being denounced as a paladin and noble to honor his word to a hermit orc and saving that orc from execution (Eitrigg).

The groundwork is there, but the lore we currently have available lacks to make the proper links to prove a tauren paladin being real.

or hell, we could just say that the blood elves decided to share their knowledge in exchange for more steak...

The Night Elves cannot be considered the oldest race. Dwarfs and Tauren were both present at the sundering, also history (both real and fictional in this case) is often only from the view point of the writing race.

"If you wish to learn of your victories and successes, ask your own historians. If you want to learn of your failures and stupidity, ask your enemies".

Tauren Lore isn't written lore. They tell of being druids, and a druid doesn't have to be the same. The High Elves had druids long ago, but I am almost sure they  could not turn into animals, since they do not share the type of conection with nature.

Tauren are said to have forgotten a lot of their culture over time, due to wars, nomadic nature and such. I believe that Tauren were not only worshippers of the sun (or Holy Light if you like the humans viewpoint...which I don't because it sounds selfish), but the moon and the earth. Druidism was said to have been rediscovered (not learned) through Hammuls connection with Malfurion and such.

The sun would be paladins, but due to their nomadic nature, they wouldn't have the same advances in metalurgy...which is why Tauren in WC3 mainly carried big ass sticks and didn't wear plate, thus not being a "paladin" but rather a Sun Druid. Please don't try to down play the tauren as stupid or sheep, by saying the Blood Elves could have taught them. The blood elves know nothing of religion until recently, seeing as they had to enslave a Naaru. The Tauren are Noble, Wise and Virtuous....well..Most of em anyway.

Also, Dwarf Shaman and Purple pointy eared mages make sense, at least from a WOW history stand point.

The Wild Hammer Dwarfs have always had shaman, Hence the whole STORRRRRMMMMHAAAAAMMMMMAAAA thing. A couple of Bronzebeards going "man you know what would be cool? slingin' totems and throwing lightning." isn't too far fetched.

And Night Elf mages have always existed in lore. Hell, Illidan was a Mage...before the whole, Crazy, demon-pact, "I HATE MY BROTHER" Thing.

[OrcishIncubus]

You didn't read everything I said.

[canon_fodder]

I don't think anyone is saying that Tauren are big or stupid. (also they wouldn't be calling them sheep... more cattle. Bum Dum cha!)

Personally, You could easily explain it as, the Paladins let them in, showed them how to do it? Hell I am sure they will have a very detailed explanation... It's not like this is Michael Bay we are dealing with here, Blizzard have always taken their Lore very seriously, hell the Warcraft 3 Manual wasn't so much a manual as it was a History book. I had a friend steal it for the sole purpose of learning about the night elves.

And its not like this is a quick thrown together expansion. they would have been working on this for at least 2 years now.

[onlineshopping]

This is my all time favorite game.

[jamestycon]

Very nice information shared in this thread. I like it. Thanks for sharing it.