Issue 245: what's your sign?

[Kakaze]

Is there a reason you use Flash over Illustrator?

[Hawk]

Have a question on step 2...

You say that you export the ink layer from Flash as a 300dpi JPEG.  The inks certainly look grayscale, so why not save it in something that isn't quite so lossy, like PNG?  I have found that compresses great when you have a clean grayscale source.

Also, I was curious what other inking programs you have tried... and are there any particular reasons why you don't use them?

if you're talking about the faded gray marks in the background, thats the original sketch.

I  use painter and alias sketchbook pro. inking in flash is faster for me. it gets the job done.

[Hawk]

Is there a reason you use Flash over Illustrator?

inking in illustrator will take forever. inking in flash is faster and easier.

[StarCreator]

You say that you export the ink layer from Flash as a 300dpi JPEG.  The inks certainly look grayscale, so why not save it in something that isn't quite so lossy, like PNG?  I have found that compresses great when you have a clean grayscale source.

if you're talking about the faded gray marks in the background, thats the original sketch.

That's not quite what I meant.  I mean, if there's no color at this stage, why not export the inks as a lossless format, rather than using a lossy one?  With no color at this stage, a PNG would have comparable filesize to a JPEG at maximum quality, without the issues associated with most JPEG renderers.  Using JPEG at this intermediate stage just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

[Hawk]

You say that you export the ink layer from Flash as a 300dpi JPEG.  The inks certainly look grayscale, so why not save it in something that isn't quite so lossy, like PNG?  I have found that compresses great when you have a clean grayscale source.

if you're talking about the faded gray marks in the background, thats the original sketch.

That's not quite what I meant.  I mean, if there's no color at this stage, why not export the inks as a lossless format, rather than using a lossy one?  With no color at this stage, a PNG would have comparable filesize to a JPEG at maximum quality, without the issues associated with most JPEG renderers.  Using JPEG at this intermediate stage just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

i really dont understand why you're so worried about the quality loss at this stage right now.



the window on the left is the ink at 100% - 300dpi - JPG
the window on the right is the ink at 100% - 300dpi - PNG
I even saved the screenshot as a PNG.

[StarCreator]

i really dont understand why you're so worried about the quality loss at this stage right now.

(image)

the window on the left is the ink at 100% - 300dpi - JPG
the window on the right is the ink at 100% - 300dpi - PNG
I even saved the screenshot as a PNG.

I suppose the quality loss isn't really a concern, looking at that - especially after coloring.  But if you keep the ink layers, I still think PNG would make more sense - I'm almost willing to bet the PNG shown above has a smaller filesize than the JPEG.  (Of course, you'd probably just keep the original Flash files instead of an exported image...)

[Hawk]

i really dont understand why you're so worried about the quality loss at this stage right now.

(image)

the window on the left is the ink at 100% - 300dpi - JPG
the window on the right is the ink at 100% - 300dpi - PNG
I even saved the screenshot as a PNG.

I suppose the quality loss isn't really a concern, looking at that - especially after coloring.  But if you keep the ink layers, I still think PNG would make more sense - I'm almost willing to bet the PNG shown above has a smaller filesize than the JPEG.  (Of course, you'd probably just keep the original Flash files instead of an exported image...)

yes i keep everything. when i export the line art, i still have the flash file shaved. when i finish coloring the comic, merge all the layers and publish it online, i still have the original psd file with layers.

[DrunkenC0wb0y]

So, I have really been reading this comic and enjoying it. I've always wanted to know how people like Hawk do things like this. I am trying to start a comic with a couple of people and with no luck. Doing the comic on the comp is mad hard when you don't have a tablet or something like what hawk has. I was just wondering if there is a good, cheap way to get some tools for making one. And I also admire the creative genious of Ananth too, I like to write also. I'm kind of a jack-of-all-trades. I just want to let you guys know that I appreciate the work you put into this stuff and letting people see how it's done.

If at all possible I was wondering if I could get some tips on purchasing this stuff for cheap. (And maybe if I could get a copy of the script so I can see how you guys do it ^_^)

Thanks for the help guys.

[Cube]

Hey Hawk, first off I just want to say that I am a big admirer of your work and have been reading Applegeeks from the beginning and have enjoyed watching how your and Anath's work has progressed.


As for my question, I know that in the past you have mentioned that you sketch on bristol board for the orignal pencil art.  I was wondering about how big your sketch normally is.  Your normal finished web comic size is 612 X 792.  Is that from a sketch about 8 X 11in.  Or do you tend to have your sketch originally larger.  Such as 11 X 14 or 16 X 20.  I was just curious, because I know the bigger your start sketch the more detail you can cram in.


Thanks


-Cube

[Hawk]

Hey Hawk, first off I just want to say that I am a big admirer of your work and have been reading Applegeeks from the beginning and have enjoyed watching how your and Anath's work has progressed.


As for my question, I know that in the past you have mentioned that you sketch on bristol board for the orignal pencil art.  I was wondering about how big your sketch normally is.  Your normal finished web comic size is 612 X 792.  Is that from a sketch about 8 X 11in.  Or do you tend to have your sketch originally larger.  Such as 11 X 14 or 16 X 20.  I was just curious, because I know the bigger your start sketch the more detail you can cram in.


Thanks


-Cube

when i'm drawing on paper, I'm using 9x12 smooth bristol paper.

[Frezzin]

Actualy that's something wanted to know, not really important but what is the definition of a "dot" in dpi. I've always assumed it's a pixel (wouldn't surprise me if thats what it is) but it would be nice to know.

Dpi hails back to old days of illustrating.  Back then, they used the color pallette CMYK (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, & Black), which created a much more realistic and colorful feel at the time.  It is still used today in magazines and the like.  Hence, a dot is actually referring to the printing style.  See, the CMYK, as well as referring to color, also refers to layers on the picture.  Each color layer had dots on it.  In fact, if you look really closely at a magazine picture (or use a magnifying glass) you can see the dots on it.  That's what it means when you think of dots per inch.  They are actual dots of color, which is the only way printers were able to print back then.  So the higher the dpi, the more dots it crams in--hence giving it more detail, color, etc.  But there is a limit, as Hawk was explaing in his JPEG over PNG discussion.

On that note, I had a question for Hawk.  I know you said your computer could only handle 300dpi (which makes me think you need to buy a new Mac :PP), but what happens when you guys go to print?  I would think you'd want to save it at like 500 or 600+ dpi in order to give you room for adjustment when you actually put the comic into print.  I guess my professor always freaked out about using the highest dpi possible, especially if the picture was going to be printed.

[AI_Joe]

Just wanted to let everybody in on a little tip.
The size of the brush in Flash is dependent of the viewing magnification. You have a larger brush at 50% zoom and a smaller precise brush at 200% without changing the size of the physical brush. This is different from Photoshop's brush that is dependent of the document's resolution. For example, a brush in photoshop will always be 10 pixels wide no matter what the viewing zoom is.

Another tip:
Use a sheet of paper you normally use over top of the wacom tablet - this will give more resistance to the pen and simulate the feel of actually using paper. You will be able to control your strokes a lot better. I normally use a large 3x5 post-it note on my tablet. Just replace when the paper becomes too "etched".

[Kakaze]

Actualy that's something wanted to know, not really important but what is the definition of a "dot" in dpi. I've always assumed it's a pixel (wouldn't surprise me if thats what it is) but it would be nice to know.

Dpi hails back to old days of illustrating.  Back then, they used the color pallette CMYK (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, & Black), which created a much more realistic and colorful feel at the time.  It is still used today in magazines and the like.  Hence, a dot is actually referring to the printing style.  See, the CMYK, as well as referring to color, also refers to layers on the picture.  Each color layer had dots on it.  In fact, if you look really closely at a magazine picture (or use a magnifying glass) you can see the dots on it.  That's what it means when you think of dots per inch.  They are actual dots of color, which is the only way printers were able to print back then.  So the higher the dpi, the more dots it crams in--hence giving it more detail, color, etc.  But there is a limit, as Hawk was explaing in his JPEG over PNG discussion.

On that note, I had a question for Hawk.  I know you said your computer could only handle 300dpi (which makes me think you need to buy a new Mac :PP), but what happens when you guys go to print?  I would think you'd want to save it at like 500 or 600+ dpi in order to give you room for adjustment when you actually put the comic into print.  I guess my professor always freaked out about using the highest dpi possible, especially if the picture was going to be printed.

DPI is completely an invention of the Digital age.  CMYK is still used for ALL colour printing today even if it's modified to be CcMmYK or CMmYK or even Hexachrome which adds a green an orange component to the other four.

The dots you see on printed pages are not considered dots as they're printed linearly through a "screen".  This is referred to as Lines Per Inch.  LPI and DPI do have a relationship, however, as during the screening process, approximately 50 percent of the image data is lost, which means your digital image should be twice as much DPI as the printed LPI.  Newspapers are generally printed about 90 LPI which means digital images only need to be 180 DPI for proper reproduction.  Magazines and booklets and such are generally done at 155 LPI which is when you'd need 300 DPI images.  In extreme high quality printing, such as certain pages in National Geographic magazine, the LPI can reach up to 300 or more LPI.

Where exceptions to this are made:  Stochastic printing processes.

90 percent of the commercial printing industry is still using screens and LPI for their printing, however, inkjet technology and newer laser printers—which also traditionally use LPI—and now new plate printing machines use what is called Stochastic printing.

In traditional linescreen printing you have a grid.  To achieve tonality the ink dots filling the grid change size but they never deviate from the grid pattern.  In stochastic printing there is no grid and ink dots stay the same size.  Tonality is achieved by changing how many dots there are in any one particular area.  These techniques are known as Amplitude Modulation and Frequency Modulation respectively.

DPI can be applied to stochastic printing methods, however it is different from the DPI used for digital images.  Digital image DPI is a straight grid that never changes, where as printing DPI can be up to that many dots per inch.  300 DPI means you can  have 300 ink dots in one linear inch, but because of the nature of stochastic printing some areas can have the full 300 while others can have less than 20 depending on what's being printed.  Also, unlike "digital" DPI, the dots in stochastic printing are put down completely randomly on the page.

If your professor was making you do your images at anything higher than 300 DPI he either doesn't know anything at all about printing or he's used to working for extremely high quality publications and doesn't realise that that kind of resolution isn't needed.

[skull24]

I was wondering why don't you use SketchBook for inking? 

[Hawk]

I was wondering why don't you use SketchBook for inking? 

as i mentioned before, flash is vector based. the inks are clean and crisped.